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	<title>Comments on: The role of forms in martial arts</title>
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	<link>http://www.martialwhat.com/the-role-of-forms-in-martial-arts/</link>
	<description>What, how and about martial arts</description>
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		<title>By: massimo</title>
		<link>http://www.martialwhat.com/the-role-of-forms-in-martial-arts/comment-page-1/#comment-169</link>
		<dc:creator>massimo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 13 Apr 2009 15:48:36 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>@ Dr Elvis: thank you very much for your comment that I value very much.  If you read the post that initially inspired mine you will see a number of videos; several of my comments are about how people train and practice forms in a way that makes little or no sense from a practical point of view.  For those that state that a form is a good way of remembering various moves at a certain level of difficulty I can agree as long as they don’t try to convince me that they have practical applications.  I cannot speak in depth for the neija forms you mention but I have practiced for years Karate of various styles and Tang So Do where forms are very much practiced but frankly they have very little to do with the techniques used in pair practice or in sparring. 

In Wing Chun (that I have been practicing for several years and from 4 different lineages) for example the forms dictate how each technique should be performed and practical application of the form are to be tested.  Different lineages apply certain techniques at different angles and their forms reflect that.

So in response to your point: I agree you might get out what you put in; I remain convinced that understanding a form and knowing what it is supposed to do and why might help visualizing the whole concept and ultimately improving the form itself.  Whether this will improve your fighting skill is a totally different matter.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@ Dr Elvis: thank you very much for your comment that I value very much.  If you read the post that initially inspired mine you will see a number of videos; several of my comments are about how people train and practice forms in a way that makes little or no sense from a practical point of view.  For those that state that a form is a good way of remembering various moves at a certain level of difficulty I can agree as long as they don’t try to convince me that they have practical applications.  I cannot speak in depth for the neija forms you mention but I have practiced for years Karate of various styles and Tang So Do where forms are very much practiced but frankly they have very little to do with the techniques used in pair practice or in sparring. </p>
<p>In Wing Chun (that I have been practicing for several years and from 4 different lineages) for example the forms dictate how each technique should be performed and practical application of the form are to be tested.  Different lineages apply certain techniques at different angles and their forms reflect that.</p>
<p>So in response to your point: I agree you might get out what you put in; I remain convinced that understanding a form and knowing what it is supposed to do and why might help visualizing the whole concept and ultimately improving the form itself.  Whether this will improve your fighting skill is a totally different matter.</p>
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		<title>By: Dr Elvis</title>
		<link>http://www.martialwhat.com/the-role-of-forms-in-martial-arts/comment-page-1/#comment-167</link>
		<dc:creator>Dr Elvis</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 12 Apr 2009 12:42:36 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>I do not normally leave comments, especially on the first visit, but this post deserves one.

My background: 38 years training, some Okinawan and Korean arts, but mostly Chinese waijia and neijia.  Taught for 22 years.  Have been training Chen family taijiquan for 10 years.

Comment: I think you are overlooking a major feature of form: the depth.  In my experience, most forms are a series of techniques strung together to form various combinations.  This is particularly true in waijia systems.  However, there are levels of training: by focusing on a certain type of technique or application, the form becomes an multi-level training tool.  Focus on finding and applying joint locks in your form, or throws and takedowns, or elbow strikes, or knee strikes.  I believe that those techniques are there, even unintentionally.

You may have noticed that I said “most” forms above.  In my experience, technique and application is generally not discussed in a typical neijia class.  I’ve also found this to be very unhelpful.  I currently practice Chen family taijiquan first and second empty hand and double edge straight sword (jian) forms daily.  I also visualize application as I practice my forms, though not always the same and sometimes I just work on the posture.

My point: you get out of form practice what you put in.  The “hidden techniques” are there, even if your instructor didn’t learn them.  My USD $0.02.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I do not normally leave comments, especially on the first visit, but this post deserves one.</p>
<p>My background: 38 years training, some Okinawan and Korean arts, but mostly Chinese waijia and neijia.  Taught for 22 years.  Have been training Chen family taijiquan for 10 years.</p>
<p>Comment: I think you are overlooking a major feature of form: the depth.  In my experience, most forms are a series of techniques strung together to form various combinations.  This is particularly true in waijia systems.  However, there are levels of training: by focusing on a certain type of technique or application, the form becomes an multi-level training tool.  Focus on finding and applying joint locks in your form, or throws and takedowns, or elbow strikes, or knee strikes.  I believe that those techniques are there, even unintentionally.</p>
<p>You may have noticed that I said “most” forms above.  In my experience, technique and application is generally not discussed in a typical neijia class.  I’ve also found this to be very unhelpful.  I currently practice Chen family taijiquan first and second empty hand and double edge straight sword (jian) forms daily.  I also visualize application as I practice my forms, though not always the same and sometimes I just work on the posture.</p>
<p>My point: you get out of form practice what you put in.  The “hidden techniques” are there, even if your instructor didn’t learn them.  My USD $0.02.</p>
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		<title>By: Ikigai</title>
		<link>http://www.martialwhat.com/the-role-of-forms-in-martial-arts/comment-page-1/#comment-134</link>
		<dc:creator>Ikigai</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 06 Feb 2009 15:29:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.martialwhat.com/?p=113#comment-134</guid>
		<description>Very nice response Massimo, I think you make some great points. I especially like the observation about the elbow after the side kick.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Very nice response Massimo, I think you make some great points. I especially like the observation about the elbow after the side kick.</p>
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